Sexual Trauma and Healing

Today's guest is Tara Galeano, who is an author and a certified sex therapist who has worked with women and couples for over two decades to get their sexy back. She knows that there is pleasure in the body, beyond our wildest dreams, and everyone can access it. In her book Rediscovering My Body Tara teaches readers how to show up for pleasure. Through reconnecting with her body, Tara was able to understand what was right and pleasurable for her, how best to proceed from this wisdom, and most importantly, how to teach these valuable lessons to others so that they too can transform their lives and reclaim their sensuality. Tara offers unique couple’s retreats, and ceremonial, sensual journeys that open doors to new experiences and communication with oneself and partners. In this episode, Tara reflects on sexual trauma and healing. She shares the story of her own healing journey after experiencing sexual violence, and she shares her wisdom about reconnecting with our bodies and with pleasure. Sexual violence is a widespread occurrence and the trauma it causes is real. While this conversation is not graphic and it does not discuss specific acts of violence, people who have experienced trauma may still find it triggering. If you are struggling with thoughts of self-harm or suicide, please call the national crisis Lifeline at 988 to receive the help and support you deserve.

You can find Tara's work at: https://rediscoveringmybody.com/

You can find information about Dr. David Berceli's Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises at:

https://traumaprevention.com/about-dr-david-berceli/ 

You can find information about Dr. Bessel van der Kolk, author of The Body Keeps the Score, at:

https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/ 

Contact Femammal:

• Email femammalpodcast@gmail.com
• Follow the podcast on Facebook at Femammal Podcast

If you have feedback or want to be a future guest, please get in touch!

Logo design: copyright Darragh Hannan

Transcript

[00:17] Greer: 
Hi, this is Greer, your host for Femammal, the podcast that holds space for women to explore what it means to live well in our bodies and celebrates moving through this world as female mammals. Today's guest is Tara Galeano, who is an author and a certified sex therapist who has worked with women and couples for over two decades to get their sexy back. She knows that there is pleasure in the body beyond our wildest dreams, and everyone can access it. In her book, Rediscovering My Body, Tara teaches readers how to show up for pleasure. Through reconnecting with her body, Tara was able to understand what is right and pleasurable for her, how best to proceed from this wisdom, and most importantly, how to teach these valuable lessons to others so that they too, can transform their lives and reclaim their sensuality. Tara offers unique couples retreats and ceremonial sensual journeys that open doors to new experiences and communication with oneself and partners. In this episode, Tara reflects on sexual trauma and healing. She shares the story of her own healing journey after experiencing sexual violence, and she shares her wisdom about reconnecting with our bodies and with pleasure. Sexual violence is a widespread occurrence, and the trauma it causes is real. While this conversation is not graphic and it does not discuss specific acts of violence, people who have experienced trauma may still find it triggering. If you are struggling with thoughts of self harm or suicide, please call the National Crisis Lifeline at 988 to receive the help and support you deserve. Welcome, Tara. I am so grateful that you're joining us for this conversation today, and I was wondering if you could start with your own story, which does involve sexual trauma and a journey of healing. Could you start by sharing as much of your story as you feel comfortable sharing today?

[02:41] Tara: 
Yes. Thank you so much, Greer. It is an honor and a pleasure to be here, and I will share my story. Where do I want to begin is that I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. I grew up Catholic. I grew up in a family where it was kind of a multicultural, multiracial family. I experienced a molestation by a family friend as a child and really felt the wounding of that experience, and that I didn't know how to share that I didn't know what to do with the questions that emerged from that. And so I just really stuffed it and I didn't express it and I didn't speak about it for years until I did have a sexual awakening or a sexual connection with another being, that I had a boyfriend and we had sexual intercourse for the first time. And then everything came out about my previous sexual connection or sexual experience molestation with a family friend. And I was really surprised, I guess, by the response that there was a lot of disbelief and not supportive receptivity that I had thought I imagined that my story would have been seen as true and I would have been held or I would have been received in a different way, and I wasn't. And so then after my first sexual, consensual sexual experience with my boyfriend, I guess I was at a real standstill in terms of understanding my sexuality, given my molestation at a younger age and feeling like there was more to explore, but I wasn't sure on how to proceed. And I guess that's kind of what I can say about that. In terms of the trauma, I did go on to study psychology because I did want us to understand more about the connection with others. I also wanted to understand how better to help people. I was desiring to be an educator. I wanted to study language. Yeah. So I decided that I wanted to study psychology because I was wanting originally to be an educator. And so I really had these dreams, literal dreams about teaching language. And when I actually got to the point where I was teaching Macbeth and Beowulf, what I found was that it was getting the way of me actually getting to know my students. And my students were mostly in adult education, trying to get educated and receive their high school diploma because they were single parents or grandmas wanting to graduate with their grandkids, or they were, let's see, pregnant themselves as teenagers. And so I really wanted to understand who they were and what was going on with them. And then I realized I really actually wanted to be a therapist and not be an English teacher. So I went back to school and became a therapist. And then I graduated from Neuropa University contemplative education institution where I studied psychology and contemplative psychotherapy. And I started a private practice. And all of my clients pretty much wanted to speak about sex and sexuality and their relationships. And so I had zero classes on human sexuality in my graduate program, and I decided that I needed to get up to speed and really honor the request from clients. And I got certified as sexologist and then certified as a sex therapist and began to conceptually understand how to best help them really practicing sex therapy from an academic perspective, which was great. I felt like it was helpful and beneficial, but then there was a deeper layer of how I was embodying these truths. And there's something really powerful about the understanding that comes from the lived experience of knowing more about sex and sexuality. And I wasn't quite there. I was married. I had a couple of kids, and along the way, there was some deceptive, deception going on in my relationship with my former husband where he would say that he was a sex addict and I would say that I was a sex therapist and that I would try whatever we could do to help save our marriage. And I took my vows very seriously, and I really wanted to see things change. And I felt like this is the work that I was meant to do in the world, and I can certainly do it in my relationship. And yet it didn't seem to shift things on the fundamental level that it needed to be shifted. And so that relationship dissolved. And it really sent me then on a journey of better understanding myself, because I needed to dive deeper into the understanding of what does it mean to be a sexual being? How do I claim my pleasure? And I studied with a holistic healthcare provider focusing on pelvic bowl health with Tammy Kent. I studied yoga and became a yoga instructor, became a tantric educator, and then I studied sacred sexuality in many different forms and formats and really just deepening into the embodiment of what is it to be a sexual being in this world at this time. And that was from the experience of the dissolution of my former marriage, which I never would have imagined that would have been the case.

[08:35] Greer: 
Wow, you've shared so much, thank you, because your journey has taken so many turns, and I can really hear places where you were wounded, but also places where you acknowledged your own power and took steps forward to serve others and put your own experience at other people's service. And that's so moving. And I'm wondering if you can maybe think back to those young adults you first connected with and that empathy you had for them. Do you feel like some of that empathy came from your own experience, from your young life where maybe you didn't receive the empathy you needed when you came forward?

[09:16] Tara: 
That's a beautiful question. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't necessarily think that I ever really put it in context like that, but absolutely. And I really wanted to be of service and to help those young people and to help them know that there was somebody listening to them and supporting them in this process of the struggle and the strife that they were experiencing with the challengings in their life.

[09:45] Greer: 
Of course. Would you share a little bit about the way you saw the trauma surface in your life at any stages, or maybe the symptoms of the trauma? Or you said that you had a lot of unresolved questions. Is there anything about that that you're comfortable being specific about?

[10:07] Tara: 
Yeah, I mean, it is an interesting thing that for me, the molestation was also at the same time a sexual awakening and that there was an activation then of my sexual sense of self that I had not been aware of prior to that. I don't think that I really felt myself being a sexual being as a ten year old girl, even though we are; I mean, we come into the world in that way that we are all of who we are, and yet I didn't have the awareness, and so it was brought to my awareness prematurely in some ways. And then there was no context in which to build understanding. And then there was no reference or resource, certainly in my family, that could help me understand what had happened because I wasn't forthcoming and sharing what had happened. Because I knew that there would be detrimental repercussions and that I knew that the man who had molested me had groomed me and had set things up, in a way because he knew that I would not tell my mother. And my mother was a single mother and I didn't tell her. And I could feel then the separation between myself and my mother and then the distance that grew from that experience. And I would say, ultimately what happened then was a lot of shame around my own sense of sexuality. And then there was also an overlay of being Catholic and Catholic guilt of not understanding that sex is natural and that there is an innocence to sex, but more that it was forbidden and that it should be something that I should not be interested in or certainly not enjoying. And so all of that residue seemed to be enlarged in my body in some way.

[12:11] Greer: 
Yeah, that's really painful. I'm wondering when you were having that realization that what people really needed and wanted from you in your practice was sex therapy and information and this whole area that had been such a source of pain for you, what led you to run towards that instead of away from that?

[12:37] Tara: 
Yeah, that's a great question. It really was my own inherent desire to explore and know sex as something that was pleasurable. I think there was that experience that there was some pleasure and that I wanted to know more and that I also could really empathize with the vulnerability of asking these questions and then for myself, receiving them and not knowing the answers. And I imagined that probably when I spoke these words to my mother about being molested that she didn't have the answers either. And that for me, then, the quest was to find the answers because I knew within myself I could be comfortable receiving my clients in this way. I wanted to honor their requests. And it really was just about finding the right resources and making the connection.

[13:46] Greer: 
Right. It's so hard because the generation prior to us is often doing the best they can with what they have, and what they have isn't sufficient to our needs. Have you been able to identify how you wish your mom could have responded to you and then how you want to help other people to be able to respond?

[14:10] Tara: 
Yeah, I think yeah, that's powerful. And I do believe it's not only the generation prior. I feel like oftentimes many of us, if not all of us, respond to things in the best way that we know how in that moment. And I see that, and for me, it creates more humility of understanding my own limitations and how I show up for others, even though I may desire to show up differently, but that there are limitations. And in understanding that, I can imagine that it's very important to say sometimes 'I don't know,' or 'I understand how you may feel and I'm not sure how to help you,' and that's okay to not know.

[15:05] Greer: 
Yeah, that's really powerful. Just being honest.

[15:11] Tara: 
Yeah.

[15:13] Greer: 
Well, it sounds like you do really good work alongside people, and it's such needed work. I was looking at some statistics, and it's hard to get really solid statistics on a lot of this because people don't receive the justice they need and deserve, and people are reluctant to come forward or don't have the tools or the words to come forward, especially when they're young. But right now in the US. The estimate from the CDC is that over half of women experience some form of sexual violence in their lifetime. And that obviously can be a huge source of trauma for so many. Maybe stepping back just from your own experience, but thinking more broadly as well, what are some of the effects that sexual trauma can have on our sex lives and our ability to listen to our bodies and our ability to trust our bodies?

[16:09] Tara: 
Yeah, I would say overall, there's a shutting down of our system that we don't feel safe, that we feel that we need to be suppressed or that we suppress ourselves. That then there can be a lack of vocalization lack of sound, which is a very powerful experience to shut off somebody's voice. If we were victims of unwanted sexual contact and our voice was suppressed or we were told to be quiet or told not to share this with anybody, then it reinforces the lack of voice and that reinforces a sense of lack of agency that we can do anything about it so really enabling us to feel powerless. And that's not true. But I'd say that's what happens because there's an activation within the nervous system of the fight and flight and freeze response and that it impacts oh goodness, so many different systems within our body that we shut down on a physiological level and that the reactivation of those systems needs to happen in order for us to have a satisfying sex life. And a lot of that happens when we can feel safe again, when we can know consent in a much different way than we did in the past. And it's about trusting the process, trusting ourselves first and then trusting others.

[17:44] Greer: 
That sounds crucial. And then also really hard because trust is what got violated. Do you have thoughts about how we can learn to listen to the messages our bodies are sending us and trust our bodies and make those judgments again about who and what is trustworthy?

[18:05] Tara: 
Yes. And that in and of itself is a powerful process, is to trust the body again. And it's not exclusive to women who have experienced sexual violence or a sexual violation. But I also see this with women who have had the experience of a life threatening illness that they feel a sense of betrayal by their body and so then to relax and be in their body and experience pleasure feels antithetical to their experience. And so there's some sense of incongruence, like and I can't do this and I can't relax and I can't surrender and I can't trust my body. And then the opportunity is to not suppress that, but to maybe live into it a little bit more and to tolerate that distress a little bit more and to be very gentle with oneself and to know that it's a process and that it's not one and done. But it takes steps and it takes time and it takes a lot of love and compassion for oneself to begin to be in the body again and to trust oneself because the pain is there and the pain is one layer of the experience. And then beyond that, there is more pleasure.

[19:23] Greer: 
What are some of the elements of that process?

[19:29] Tara: 
Ideally, what I would say is that it's one that we engage for ourselves, by ourselves is that the exploration happens as we independently begin to come into ourselves, is that it can't be reliant upon another person, even a therapist or a supportive partner, that they are there to help and support us, but they're supporters and that this is a journey I believe that we need to undertake for ourselves, ultimately by ourselves. And that the first step is slowing down enough and giving oneself permission to take the time to begin this journey. And I think that's really a critical piece. I think oftentimes the motivation to do this type of work is because we want to be in relationship with another or we are in relationship with another and we want to please them and then that obscures the focus and it kind of dilutes our own inclinations and that it's important. I do believe that we come back to ourselves and that's really important. So giving oneself permission and setting the time aside, this is a value, this is of importance and actually scheduling the time sometimes can be a value. If we don't schedule the time, then we don't make it happen.

[21:03] Greer: 
That's great advice. I'm wondering about, you named the fact that there might be distress along the way and that distress might spill out in all kinds of physiological responses. Just because the trauma happened in one area doesn't mean that the trauma just lives in that area. Do you have some thoughts on what's like a safe or a tolerable level of distress and when it's time to just step back and say, okay, I'm just going to let that ride for a little longer. You don't want to do too much too fast, correct?

[21:42] Tara: 
Yes, I think that's a really important point. You don't want to do too much too fast. And that I would say oftentimes we can gauge that ourselves. And that is part of building the trust of knowing that you can do a little bit and that it won't be too much. Part of the trusting and learning how to trust ourselves again is learning how to know when too much is too much for ourselves. And that it's important to step out of the comfort that has been insular and familiar because that's how we expand and grow. But too much too soon can be too much. And so you don't want to overwhelm your nervous system. You want to be able to engage it in a way where you're pushing the edges of what could be comfortable, but you don't want to overwhelm. And that it is baby steps. I know sometimes, especially in this culture, more is better and overwhelm is common. And that we get over amped by stimulation all the time. We eat fatty foods and we drink alcohol and there's so many opportunities for stimulants in our culture, whether they're visual or excitement driven, that there are these stimulations that can overwhelm our nervous system and it feels like that should be a pathway forward. And it can be. And then the opportunity is also to experience things in a more slowed down way. So I really am an advocate that we have more capacity, that we can know the speed and we can exist in this mundane world that sometimes feels like it's on hyperdrive, but that we also can know the slower aspects. And I think that slowness has a place in the healing process, especially when it comes to trauma, that the ability to be with oneself is part of this process. Is that clear?

[23:50] Greer: 
Yeah. It sounds like you're alluding to a lot of aspects of the healing process that aren't even overtly sexual in nature. Like there's so much about your physical experience of embodiment that can be reintegrated. Do you have some examples of that?

[24:10] Tara: 
Yes, and that's a really good way to frame it, Greer. Because what I see is that oftentimes when women in particular are coming to see me, they want to reach for the thrill, they want to reach for the titillation, they want to reach for the sexual pleasure because it seems like an easier place to go to, especially if they have a partner. They want to please their partner, but it doesn't honor where they're at in that moment. And that oftentimes it takes a process of slowing things down and to be with the discomfort or the pain that is in the body again before they can get to the pleasure. And that the sexual expansiveness, the sexual pleasure, the erotic quality can be gotten to. But I'd say for a lot of us that's more advanced study that the opportunity is to be with what is first and then to learn the skills and techniques to have more pleasure. But it really is honoring and accepting whatever pain or trauma is in the body currently.

[25:21] Greer: 
What might some of those interventions be that you recommend?

[25:26] Tara: 
I think a popular one that I've taught many people are the trauma releasing exercises developed by Dr. David Bercelli. And it's a very simple process of following some exercises that fatigue the voluntary muscles and allow the involuntary muscles to engage. And then there's some neurogenic tremors that are engaged. And when that process of the tremors happen, it's not something that you're willfully engaged in but actually is just about surrendering to the process and allowing the tremors to happen. And as the tremors subside, more of the trauma that is in the body is able to be, I guess, expressed from the body. So if you've ever seen a rabbit that's been chased by a fox, the fox may not have caught the rabbit and then the rabbit releases kind of that neurochemical cocktail that it's been infused in its body, adrenaline and cortisol, and it disperses it and discharges it with a shaking process. And that we too are animals and we have the ability to do that. So it's a profoundly powerful process that I was trained in that I teach to allow the shaking to come through the body.

[26:41] Greer: 
That sounds amazing. And it really resonates with that idea that trauma and stress live in the body. So addressing them at that level is really key.

[26:54] Tara: 
Yes, there's been a lot of research recently in Bessel van der Kolk's book The Body Keeps a Score which also reinforces that we have inherent wisdom within the body and that the body can recalibrate and regulate itself in a much more powerful way than the brain ever can. And that the brain often holds a narrative that actually may not be true and that the body always lives in the truth of our experience, if we can trust in that.

[27:28] Greer: 
Yeah. These are really great people you're citing. So if people are rushing to write down what you're saying, I'll make sure that the information is in the show notes so that people can look up both of those authors.

[27:41] Tara: 
Wonderful. Good.

[27:43] Greer: 
Well, you spoke earlier about another experience that I think is very common for people, even if they haven't experienced sexual violence directly. And that's that sense of shame and danger surrounding sexual activity that is inculcated in a lot of us from an early age. And that can just make it really hard to learn our own bodies and learn what we enjoy. If you're battling a script in your head that says you're not supposed to be enjoying any of it or you might enjoy this, but this is dangerous, stay away. So some of those dynamics I think, are tough for people to navigate. What are some practical ways that we can begin to dismantle the fear and the shame that we might have been inculcated with and get to know our own bodies and what we enjoy and what we want?

[28:37] Tara: 
Yeah, I do think that that is a powerful experience for many of us, is that we are inhibited and blocked by shame. And I think first, as in so many things, is the awareness and the ability to identify that that is true, that that is your experience is really the first piece. And then to understand that there's something else that you can create for yourself and the awareness that there are other ways of being sexual. And for myself, what I like to teach people is that we all come from a sexual act, that sex is innocent and that it's very natural. And I think the creation and the construction of society has really robbed us of that understanding and has shamed so many of us, but particularly those of us who are in a female body, that there's a colonization of the female body that happens with the medicalization of birth and the lack of understanding of what happens in a female body for the development and duration of her life. And my deepest desire is for women to know really the inherent wisdom that is in their body, that we are mystery, that we are a creative force and that we are so vast and expansive just within our own being and that we can actually experience pleasure beyond our wildest dreams. I know oftentimes people reference that we as women have clitorises which has no purpose except for pleasure, the 8000 nerve endings, and that it's only there for pleasure, which is different than, I'd say, the reproductive life of a male where their sex is always related to reproduction. But for women, that is not true. That we can have sex and not be in a reproductive phase in our life. And actually sex after menopause gets even better because there is not, I would say, the baggage of pregnancy. That there's an opportunity to use that creative life force for other areas of our well being and that we can create so much.

[31:05] Greer: 
I keep being struck by the genuine hope that seems to ground you because you say things like there's a real innocence to sex and that's in contrast to an early experience that you had where you were a victim of something awful. And then I hear this optimism about our opportunities for pleasure and enjoyment. And again, it's in contrast to a script that you received about the dangers of sex and kind of things that you shouldn't be enjoying. And I'm just so attracted to that. Do you have any sense of where that hope comes from and your capacity to see a broader picture despite some of the evidence that you had in your early life?

[31:55] Tara: 
Yeah. Thank you. I feel that it is a powerful sense of knowing in my body. This is kind of a testament to that, is that when I was 22, I got pregnant with my first child, and I am adopted. And my mother, who adopted me, was never pregnant and never gave birth. And yet I had a deep sense of knowing about my daughter and when she was going to be born. And I would say she was going to be born May 23 at 03:48 A.M. And people would laugh and dismiss it, like, how could you know? This must be your first pregnancy? Because people don't know that. Women don't know that. And I was like, okay, but that's what I would say. And then on May 23 at 03:42 A.M., my daughter was born because she always comes early. But yeah, she was there, and I just knew it. And I just felt that, and it was undeniably true for me. And I know that many of us can say there are moments in our life, defining moments within our life, that we know something so deeply, that we know something so profoundly that it is true in all versions of time and space, and that we just know it in the fiber of our being. And I want women to come back to that because my sense is that when we know that on some level, at least once, that we can know that on every level much more of the time than we give ourselves credit. And that was my deep knowing. I think I had little knowings prior to that, but the moment of the birth of my daughter, who was, in fact, the first biological being that had my blood. It was a very profound experience and very affirming to me. And that for me, just really instilled even more hope that I can know things in the world that I'm not told, that are not from outside of me, that somebody hasn't dispensed to me, but I can actually know my truth in a very real way.

[34:17] Greer: 
I hear your joy, and I know you have created tools to help bring that conviction to other people. And you've written a book. Were there tools that helped get you to this conviction? Because you did describe your confusion and your unanswered questions as a teenager and an early 20 something. And was there something that was formative for you to move you from the confusion to the conviction you have now?

[34:46] Tara: 
Yes. And I say that there were key people in my life who held hope for me even when I didn't see evidence in my own life of that being true. And because these people held hope for me, then I was able to live into more of who I am. And that was a powerful process. And I think that for myself as a therapist, one of the things that I offer is that opportunity to hold hope for somebody, because I do see people as whole. And that even when they're coming into my office and saying how they are broken, especially in the sexual realm, I just don't buy it. It's not that I don't see or understand their suffering or acknowledge it, but I don't see them as broken. I don't believe that's how we are. I believe that we are whole and that the opportunity is to live more completely in that wholeness. 

[35:51] Greer:
That's so powerful. Because society as a whole, as kind of like a faceless mass is often sending us scripts that are not helpful and really undermining our sense of wholeness. And that can be anywhere out there from the media to people who were formative in our lives whether it's through schools or religious communities or families who are prescribing things that then become detrimental later when we're trying to live into our own sexual identities as adults. And I'm wondering if you have any techniques or approaches that we can use to short circuit some of those sexual scripts that are unhelpful and tune up the positive messages that maybe we're getting from people like you referred to who really believed in you and saw your wholeness and encouraged you to develop.

[36:51] Tara: 
Yeah, and I think that's really important. I think that it's important that we find people that we resonate with and that support us. And I think oftentimes that, yes, the messages that we're receiving are actually fundamentally detrimental to our well being. And that to find powerful women who are sexual and not necessarily sexualized by the culture, but sexual powerful women of their own right is an important role model. And I think we need more of those in the world. And I think when we find them that it's good to begin to template what it is that they're revealing to us and it could just be the way that they hold their body and then we can begin to emulate that. It could just be their tone of voice and then we can begin to emulate that. And that there is something very powerful. Not that it's a mimicry, but that there is a process of mirror neurons that we can learn from other people. That which is maybe not activated in ourselves or that which we're unaware. But we need to be able to see it or feel it or perceive it in order to reach for it. Because if we don't have an awareness that it exists, then it doesn't exist. But once that comes into our awareness, then we can begin to live into that. So I really encourage women to actually be with other women and see the beauty and who they are and allow that activation of the other woman to engage with your own mirror neurons, if you will, of what is that sexy quality that they hold that you want to embrace within yourself and that there is this power of entrainment that can happen in that process and that there's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing shameful in that. That is really a lot how we learn. If you imagine in terms of our development as humans that we learn so much from being with our caregivers it's not a process of them giving us an instruction manual and an operating manual that we have to read and cognitively process, but we embody it because of how they're showing up in our lives. And that's very important that we don't shut that down when we learn more in the world, as we mature and as we develop, but that we begin to honor that in addition to our cognitive abilities.

[39:30] Greer: 
Oh, that resonates so much for me. I think women in particular are socialized not to take up space. And it's really when I see other women who are really standing their ground and they hold themselves in a particular way and they project their voice or they speak with a level of facility, they don't second guess themselves, they don't minimize anything they have to say. And it really inspires something else in me, and it draws me out. And I love the way you put that. That's really a powerful image for me.

[40:10] Tara: 
Good, I'm glad because I do think that it's really important and for myself, part of my process after the dissolution of my previous marriage was to find women who embodied what it was that I wanted to learn and be in their presence. And so I studied with Tammy Kent and I studied holistic pelvic care, and I learned more about the process of a woman being in a woman's body and being in her womb space and the power that is there. And it was not only her speaking about it, but being there in the container with all of these other women and being with their bodies because there's so much that we template with that information given.

[40:56] Greer: 
Yeah, absolutely. And you were also touching on how sex can become kind of cognitive or cerebral rather than embodied. There's a lot of aspects of our culture that sort of lead to that. And in general, we just have a less embodied society right now. We're very plugged into screens or print or imagery and it can just lead to that living in our heads issue, which I think could be detrimental for really being in our bodies and enjoying sex and connecting physically. So do you have more thoughts about how not to shut your brain down, not to turn your thoughts off, but get out of that primarily cerebral approach and get back into our bodies so that we can be more authentic personally?

[41:56] Tara: 
Yeah, I love that. And I'm all about simple ways because if it's really hard, I find that we're not going to do it.

[42:03] Greer: 
Yeah, please make it simple for us.

[42:07] Tara: 
For me, an access point is to actually move my body. So in between clients, and mostly I see my clients via telehealth, I have a little trampoline, a rebounder in my office, and I jump because I need to move my body in order to be in my body. And the stagnancy that I experience by standing or sitting all day, by being on a computer screen, creates more of an inertia for me, and the energy in my body is not moving. And then to activate a feeling of my body, I need to move my body. So for me, I jump. I used to walk in between clients, but now I have more, so I have less time. But I think the movement of the body is critical, and it doesn't matter so much what you're doing, but more so how you're doing it, and that it's something that you like to do. Sometimes I like walking better than jumping. Sometimes I like jumping. But what I really love is I love to dance. And I'm not a partner dancer, which I would love to be, but I just like to dance to music. And I think that there's something powerful about doing something that you love to do or even that you like to do, because sometimes it changes. I used to be a runner. I've run marathons. I've run triathlons. And I liked that, too. I used to swim, I used to bike, but now I just jump.

[43:37] Greer: 
I love it all. And you couldn't have made it simpler! I will use that advice.

[43:42] Tara: 
Yeah, because it has to be really simple, or else we won't do it because it'll feel too hard. And I know for some people, I could say do yoga, which is great, but sometimes people find that to be really difficult. So do what it is you can and do something, and it's wonderful to do it on a regular and consistent basis, because we need that on an ongoing way that it really is a process. It's never one and done, but it's really what can you commit to? And to know that it'll change as you evolve and grow. And that's okay.

[44:21] Greer: 
Thanks. So one thing I really appreciated about your story is the growth you went through at different phases in your life, and even after being in a long term relationship, after having children, you still entered more deeply into your body, learned new ideas, have shared those ideas with other people. And I think women who might already be in a long term relationship sometimes want that sort of growth, want to explore these questions, but are a little bit hesitant about rediscovering their body and connecting in new ways and developing greater sexual authenticity for themselves because they think they might be rocking the boat with their long term partner. Do you have any suggestions for how to approach it, if that's the stage in life you're in?

[45:17] Tara: 
Yes, that is a great question. One that I see again and again, that it doesn't matter whether you've been married five years, you've been married 15 or 25 years. There is this fear of rocking the boat because things are good enough. And by and far, most of the couples that I see in my practice are people who love their partner, feel like that's their best friend. They get along, and they're living together like roommates and they're not necessarily excited, but they're able to exist together in, I would say, homostasis that feels compatible for both of them. And they would like to have more sex, but they're not sure how to do that and they don't even know if their partner would be interested in that because things seem to be good enough. And I'd say, yeah, then that's a great place to be. Because if you can imagine there's a lot of stability in that relationship, there's a lot of compatibility and there's probably a lot at stake if things were to go south, right, or if things weren't working out. But there's actually a lot of potential if things were to improve and that it can be uncomfortable to move forward and maybe even risk all that. But I'd say by and large, most people aren't risking all of that because I'd say by and large, what I see is that the partner oftentimes want to have a better sexual or more intimate sexual connection and they just don't know how. And so I would say the bravest thing might be is to open up that conversation and begin to speak about what it is that you truly desire.

[46:59] Greer: 
That's great advice. Maybe they'll be grateful that you were the one to broach it.

[47:03] Tara: 
Yes.

[47:05] Greer: 
And maybe on the other end of the spectrum, maybe women who have never been in a consensual sexual relationship and want to develop a greater sense of intimacy with themselves, a sense of confidence in their own sexuality, what's a place to start for women in that situation?

[47:26] Tara: 
I love that because I do think that's a great place to start. I think that what I love about that opportunity is that there's not a partner, there's not somebody swaying or influencing what you imagine you might like. Oftentimes a lot of women were geared and we're trained to be givers, to be people-pleasers is often how it shows up and then we're guided to take care of others. And that that's one way of being in the world. There's nothing wrong with it. But oftentimes what I find is then that denies the woman the opportunity to access her own sense of pleasure. And that when we're solo and we can have solo pleasure or solo sex, then we can know more about what is true for us. What is it that we like, what is it that we don't like, and that there's a whole array of exploration that can happen for us and that it can be a really powerful understanding. And then from that we can know truly what it is that we like and then be able to share that a little bit more effortlessly with another person because we have clarity about what it is that turns us on and what it is that brings us pleasure in our body.

[48:46] Greer: 
And I'll just recognize the fact that that's not something that is necessarily widely promoted or recognized for women in our culture, specifically, self pleasure, tends to be something associated with men in our culture. So if that idea makes women a little bit hesitant or uncomfortable, is there something, maybe even a step back from that kind of engagement that does relate to sexual self confidence and self intimacy that people can start with? You talked about many other ways of connecting with our bodies that's not necessarily directly sexual.

[49:29] Tara: 
Yes. So I like the term self pleasure because it's not exclusive to masturbation, that self pleasure is an all encompassing term of what brings you pleasure. And oftentimes I really do like to begin with the senses of what does it taste like, what does it smell like, what does it look like, what does it sound like, what does it feel like? And we can bring that type of awareness to things that we already know we like to do. Like I like to eat. And then when I can bring my awareness to the sensations that I'm experiencing in my senses, then it's a very different way of eating. And it can bring actually, a heightened sense of pleasure in my being. And that is an experience of self pleasure. Sometimes it's I like to sit in the hot tub and then be in nature and also note then the levels of sensation that I'm perceiving. And so it doesn't necessarily need to be a sexual activity, although it can be but it can be a mundane experience like we all eat yeah, every day. And bringing the heightened awareness to that experience so we're more present, so we're more aware of the five sensations of our body. And that's a powerful and profound gift that we can give to ourselves at any time, at any moment. Again, I like the opportunity to bring this awareness to mundane activities because we're already doing this all the time anyway. And can we engage it in a way where we're heightening our sense of self pleasure? I mean, even walking, right, the movement of our body, our feet on the ground, there's a way in which we can walk to get to where we're going. And there's a way that we can walk to really experience more pleasure in our body. And notice when I'm walking, what am I tasting, what am I smelling? What am I seeing? What am I feeling? What is a sound?

[51:35] Greer: 
That's such a helpful distinction, and it sounds like a practice of mindfulness can unlock so much for people. And it's not a value that's necessarily upheld on a daily basis in a society where we seem to all be multitasking all the time. I mean, I guarantee whoever is listening to this podcast is probably doing something else simultaneously, which is one of the beauties of podcasting. But if I'm eating my breakfast, I'm usually also checking my email before I run out the door to work. And just bringing that practice of mindfully doing the things that we're doing every day that give us pleasure can unlock a lot for us personally. I love that insight.

[52:21] Tara: 
Yes. And that ultimately, we don't need to do that all the time. We can still eat our breakfast and check our email, but if we can engage that at least one activity a day or maybe even one activity a week, it's going to begin to shift and change how we show up in the world and experience pleasure for ourselves in our being.

[52:43] Greer: 
You're really making it doable for us. I appreciate that about this conversation.

[52:47] Tara: 
I'm so glad. I'm all about what's doable.

[52:50] Greer: 
Yeah. So looking back on your journey, all the challenges you've experienced, the trauma you faced, the growth you've experienced, what would you say your joy is rooted in?

[53:06] Tara: 
Oh, I'd say a huge piece of my joy in that even though I was adopted and I was raised in a multiracial family and could feel some fracture within that that there's also this incredible sense of wholeness that I feel like I have been gifted by my ancestors, that my ancestors are Colombian, and I feel like I come from a long lineage of curanderas and I have my daughter before me and my granddaughter before her, and I feel very humbly connected to my lineage. And with that, then the support of those who have come before me and now those who are preceding me or following me, and I just feel the gift of that succession. I don't necessarily need to stress or worry about my appropriate place, because now I know where I belong.

[54:03] Greer: 
I love your sense of confidence in that connection. That's beautiful.

[54:09] Tara: 
Yeah. Thank you.

[54:11] Greer: 
So to close out, I always ask, and I'd love to hear from you what's one thing we can begin to do now, to listen well to our bodies?

[54:22] Tara: 
Well, one of my favorite things is just to be kind and gentle with oneself. I find that even with this desire to be more sexual, have more pleasure, we can oftentimes adopt a self aggressive mode. Like, I got to get this done. I have to be different. And I really want to encourage everybody who's listening to be much more gentle with themselves and kind and compassionate, because from that experience, we can then maybe show up that way for others if we wish.

[54:56] Greer: 
Thank you. That's beautiful. I'll take that to heart.

[54:59] Tara: 
Wonderful. I'm glad.

[55:01] Greer: 
Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Tara. It's been a wonderful conversation, and I really appreciate you reaching out.

[55:09] Tara: 
Thank you so much. Greer, I really enjoyed speaking with you today.

[55:19] Greer: 
If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear from you. You can email me at femammalpodcast@gmail.com. That's femammalpodcast@gmail.com. You can also follow this podcast on Facebook. Just search for Femammal Podcast and you will find a community of people who are interested in living well in our bodies. And of course, I'd love for you to rate this podcast and leave a review wherever you download your podcasts. Until next time. Be well.