Doula Download

Kimberly Sharpe, who has practiced as a postpartum doula, explains the role of a doula in pregnancy, delivery, and after delivery, and discusses others forms of women-centric birthing care a mother may receive. She shares these resources: 
In the Flo, by Alisa Vitti 
The Business of Being Born 
Pacific Birth Collective  
DONA International 

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Transcript

[00:17] Greer: Hi, this is Greer, your host for Femammal, the podcast that holds space for women to explore what it means to live well in our bodies and celebrates moving through this world as female mammals. This season, we are listening to women share their stories of how they formed their families, especially when health factors or medical issues impacted their decisions. Women's health matters for its own sake. At the same time, for many women, health issues not only impact their own quality of life, but also their paths to forming families. And many women have wanted to share those stories here, too. For our purposes, forming families means the creation of any home life that generates safety, belonging, connection, and joy. And it doesn't exclusively mean becoming a parent and raising children. I hope you will listen to each story this season with a sense of curiosity and compassion. And if you're going through something in your life right now where you're not in a place to listen to stories like these, I hope that you find compassion and support for what you're going through, and you can return to this podcast when you're ready. Today's guest is Kimberly Sharpe, who is a passionate advocate for women's health and empowerment. With a background as a postpartum doula and midwife assistant, Kimberly has devoted herself to supporting women through the transformative journey of childbirth. Now her focus lies in advocating for women's hormonal cycle awareness, aiming to educate and empower women to embrace their natural rhythms. Through her work, Kimberly seeks to deepen the understanding of femininity and provide support for honoring women on their individual paths to wellness and wholeness. In this episode, she shares about her experience as a postpartum doula. Welcome, Kimberly. Thanks for joining me in person this time to talk about your experience as a doula. I'm really looking forward to this conversation because I don't think I had even heard of a doula until my mid-twenties, and it's still sort of a new concept for me. So maybe could you start by telling us what a doula is and how you became interested in being a doula?

[03:02] Kimberly: Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a delight to be in person with you. A doula is kind of a catch all word for someone who serves--a servant. And there are different kinds of doula. There's a birth doula or a postpartum doula. So some people don't know that there's two different kinds, but there's someone who's with someone who's birthing and in that laboring process, and then there's someone who can support the person who's had a baby for weeks or months after having had a baby.

[03:40] Greer: And I've even begun to hear the word expanded beyond anything to do with pregnancy or delivery. So that's been interesting as well.

[03:48] Kimberly: Yeah, there is, what's the word? I guess it's more of, like, a death doula is a phrase for that as well. Maybe miscarriages or different kinds of things. There's a doula as well for that. Sure. 

Greer: I've had a doula for. How does she describe herself? Like a cycle doula? Yeah, that's how she describes herself, which has been really helpful to me because I have really troublesome cycles, and it's helped me kind of wrap my arms around what all is going on and make improvements and connect me to other areas of support.

[04:20] Kimberly: I hadn't heard of that before. That's cool. Yeah.

[04:22] Greer: Yeah.

[04:23] Greer: So we talked about there being lots of different types of doulas. What area were you most drawn to, and how did you choose, or how did you discover that in yourself?

[04:33] Kimberly: It sort of found me. I've been interested with birth and labor and delivery ever since my oldest sister started having babies. And I started to see how differently her labors and all of that were for each child. And so I just watched documentaries and read different books and just started to learn more about it. And then when I was in Maui, I happened to go to a birth convention. There's this organization called the Pacific Birth Collective, and they host this birth extravaganza on Labor Day. And I decided to just go and see what it's like and be curious. And there was one section of that area where they were having sign ups for people to learn how to be a postpartum doula. And I hadn't really ever heard about it before, but the more I looked at the information and then looked at some of the trainings, I was like, oh, yeah, this is going to be something right up my alley that I would love to help and support women after the fact, more or less. Cause that's some of the more experience I've had with myself, not having had any kids, but having helped my sister with a lot of her kids and then also growing up a big family. So I've just always been helpful with kids and babies, and then that's been really natural for me. So I was like, oh, there's a training for that. I'll check it out.

[05:52] Greer: What an amazing confluence of interests and opportunities for you.

[05:55] Kimberly: Yeah.

[05:56] Greer: Can you tell us more about your training process personally, and then sort of broadly, is there any standardization in training process?

[06:06] Kimberly: I haven't delved too much into the standardization of it all, but the way I was trained was through a weekend workshop seminar, and then we also had different books and different criteria that we had to meet in order to complete the program and then go and support different moms and then also, yeah, write different papers and essays on the things that we read. So it was about a year long process to actually become certified through the Pacific Birth Collective. So it wasn't necessarily through DONA, which is like a big organization that certifies doulas, but this is kind of their own certification process underneath their organization on Maui.

[06:48] Greer: Neat. So there might be a few different organizations that might certify a person as a doula. So you might ask someone if you're thinking of employing them as a doula, whether they're certified as a doula and who they're certified under.

[07:02] Kimberly: Yeah, definitely.

[07:04] Greer: Was there maybe an apprenticeship type experience involved as one step in your certification? 

[07:07] Kimberly: It was mostly your own training. There were unpaid internships, but I wasn't being trained under anyone in particular. It was a pretty intense workshop during that weekend, and then there were different kinds of check-in points throughout that as well, different meetups that we could have talking about those things as well. But I wasn't specifically trained under somebody.

[07:35] Greer: How about in a less formal way--did you find a mentor in the field at some point?

[07:39] Kimberly:  I did navigate actually out of Doula and more towards assistant midwife for a season. So I did go to a workshop with Robin Lim, and she was teaching about how to have labor support in, like, apocalyptic isn't the right word, but with climate change is probably the better word for it. How does that work in the day and age that we're kind of in and maybe progressing towards, like, on Maui, people talk a lot about, what if there's no power all of a sudden? What if there's no electricity all of a sudden? What if we get a hurricane and things are just like, kapput like, how can we support moms and birthing women? Because people are still going to have babies in situations like that. So I did go to a weekend seminar listening to Robin Lim speak, and I met a midwife there who had moved to Maui and was looking for an assistant. And I was like, yeah, again, the same kind of vein of the things I'm interested in, and let's get a little bit closer to the birth side and see how that is. And so I navigated a little bit out of the doula and more into the midwife assistant.

[08:49] Greer: I appreciate you bringing that up. Could you share more? Because midwives are also kind of an underrepresented role or something that kind of got brushed to the side for a long time. So a lot of people don't really know what a midwife is. And then what would be the difference between a midwife and a doula? Do you want to flesh that out a little bit?

[09:08] Kimberly: Yeah. You touched on so many things there. When I was in college, I wrote a paper on, like, the history of midwives. So I'm like, I know where they went.

[09:17] Greer: Wow, you've really always been interested in this.

[09:19] Kimberly: Yeah, yeah. I mean, my sister had very different births, each one, and I was like, what is going on here? And then I did, I mentioned the documentary, but the Business of Being Born was a documentary that really blew my mind, and I was like, wait a minute. People are making a lot of money off of women having births that they might not have to have, but there's a lot of incentivization in our medical industry to make money off of people being sick or surgeries and stuff like that. So, yeah, so a midwife. There's also different kinds of midwives. You can be a certified nurse midwife. You can be a certified practicing or CPM, a certified practicing midwife or something like that. So I think there's, like, four or five different kinds of certifications you can be to even be a midwife. And then also, per state, some are legal, some are not. So sometimes CPMs are legal in some states, and sometimes they're not. So it's all, I mean, what is legal in midwifery is also kind of wild anyways. But a midwife, as opposed to a doula, the midwife is similar to a doctor in that you can see the midwife a couple of times or more than a couple of times leading up to your delivery day. And they can do blood tests. They can check the position of the baby. They can talk to you about your birth plan. They can see if there's any nutrients or vitamins that you should be taking to help support your baby and your health as well. And then they do show up when you're laboring and delivering and make sure things are progressing well. Listening to the heart monitor and checking on, yeah, you. And just overall, your health. And then a doula is more of a direct support to the mom emotionally and physically, in kind of any capacity, more or less, that she needs, if she needs someone to hold her or feed her or wipe her tears or, yeah, just varying degrees. It's just very much more, like, there to provide for anything that the birthing person would need.

[11:33] Greer: So the midwife has more of what we would recognize as a medical role.

[11:38] Kimberly: That's a better word for it. Yeah.

[11:40] Greer: And it's less of the sort of industrial medicine that you might see in a hospital, but definitely hands on if you want.

[11:49] Kimberly: Like, that was one of the biggest things I learned from practicing with a midwife is that it was all mother centered. It was educating and informing them to the best of our ability about the risks, possibly, or, yeah, just different things that could happen. A lot of conversations, a lot of talking. And then what do you want to do with this information? And then we would go through what we were comfortable with, but, like, what, whatever they were comfortable with is what we would honor.

[12:22] Greer: So then, in terms of the doula role, what types of things do women seek out doula support for, both during pregnancy and then after?

[12:35] Kimberly: During usually a birth doula is primarily only at the birth. A birth doula doesn't necessarily check in with you throughout your pregnancy. I mean, obviously, you might interview them and want to get to know them so that you're comfortable with them, but they're not checking in with you quite like a midwife would be, or could be. And then while you're laboring, they could help push your hips, maybe there's a lot of pressure there. They probably would be trained in that, depending on how the person wants to be soothed, talk to them in that kind of way. Again, it's just very personable, like, maybe they would have food ready to provide for them if that was something that they were wanting. So, yeah, it's a lot more just maybe, like, emotional and physical hands on support in the outer side of a woman.

[13:33] Greer: Is there anything along the lines of a doula who would be involved during pregnancy itself, maybe helping with a birth plan, or especially if a person is struggling with complications from a pregnancy. Is that something that exists currently?

[13:52] Kimberly: It could be, yeah. I don't know, off the top of my head, but I imagine there's all kinds of doulas, people and experiences in what they offer. Yeah, sure.

[14:01] Greer: And then your focus was more after a birth, postpartum support. So what did that look like?

[14:08] Kimberly: That, I learned, is often the most neglected side of a woman's journey with pregnancy, labor, and then postpartum, like, very often postpartum is just something that gets sprung on a person after they have a baby, and then that could be really difficult because you're pregnant for nine months, but then you have this baby forever, essentially. So postpartum is more the way I understood it and the way I was taught is a minimum of like 3 hours. And then however many times a woman or a family was wanting support with their newborn, and it could be washing the clothes, washing the dishes, meal prepping, making meals, cleaning the house, holding the baby so the mom can shower or nap, or if they're a couple, they can go and do something together. If the baby's being watched, it's just being an extra pair of hands around the home, more or less. Or if they even needed someone to go to an appointment with them, they were wanting that kind of support. They could do that, too. But very often, people don't know how hard it is when you have this small little thing that needs to feed every 2 hours minimum, and then all the dirty clothes, it just piles up very quickly if there aren't extra hands around.

[15:33] Greer: And in addition to that, women are so under informed about the physical fallout of birthing. There's kind of this concept of that post birth period as being the fourth trimester, but we aren't really warned about what our bodies are going to experience during that time. Is there an educational component that you're able to share some insight with a woman about what's normal or what she might expect during that time?

[16:06] Kimberly: Yeah, to a certain degree. There's only so much that you can educate someone about when they're pregnant and waiting for the postpartum because they're already dealing with so much waiting for the labor and the delivery. So there are some things that can be talked about in terms of, like, it would be helpful if I helped you now or if there's a way you could prepare and freeze meals ahead of time, because that's going to be really difficult to make time for. I mean, unfortunately, with our culture and society, which is something that I've segued on since leaving the midwifery side of things is like, in general, women and humans don't know about their hormones at all and how they impact your life. And so when you're pregnant, there's a set of hormones that affect you, and then when you're laboring, there's hormones that affect you, and then when you're postpartum, there's hormones that affect you. So there's just like, it's, it's like you're starting from a deficit, even just from the jump. And so I feel really passionate now and haven't quite figured it out how, except talking to my friends about it, just educating yourself on, like, what hormones do, period. To the body.

[17:24] Greer: Yes. As a postpartum doula, did you find yourself being a bit of a sounding board as women tried to figure out what was, I mean, I use scare quotes here "normal" or within a healthy range? Because I'm very conscious of high rates of maternal mortality. And maternal mortality can include when women pass away shortly after birth and they've gone home and they're no longer being monitored, and they don't realize that their blood pressure is not where it should be, or they don't realize that there's some sort of ongoing bleeding issue, which is dangerous.

[18:00] Kimberly: Yeah.

[18:00] Greer: So did you find yourself being a sounding board for any of the kind of, 'Is this normal' questions?

[18:06] Kimberly: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That was one of the most impactful statistics I learned, especially in the training, was how significantly the postpartum depression lessens when there is a postpartum doula.

[18:22] Greer: Wow.

[18:22] Kimberly: Or when there is a support. It's because it is a huge tragedy that there are so many unnoticed health issues that happen postpartum, and there aren't people there to be like, are you sure this is okay, or are you sure this is da da da da? Because especially if it's your first baby, all of it's new. All of it's new. All of it's scary. Your body is doing the best that it. That it can. You're doing the best that you can. If you have a support person, they're doing the best that they can. So, yes, definitely being a postpartum doula, I was there to be like, what is normal? What's not normal? And I can only answer that to a certain degree as well. That's definitely one of those parameters between being a doula and, like, the medical industry is really. I'm there to be like, hmm, you have that question. How can I help you find that answer? Let's go to a doctor or go to your midwife or, like, lead you back to that.

[19:20] Greer: It might be time to make an appointment.

[19:22] Kimberly: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[19:23] Greer: So really being an advocate in that way.

[19:25] Kimberly: Yeah, yeah.

[19:28] Greer: So how do women usually find a doula? And does insurance typically cover the cost of a doula?

[19:35] Kimberly: That's a good question. I haven't looked too far into that. I would say probably primarily it's how to find a doula would be like, word of mouth. That's one of the huge ways that people do that. There's probably online groups and organizations as well that you can look it up. But I haven't gotten too familiar with that side of things in a while. Insurance probably varies by state. And that also, there's debate even in the doula side of things, even if people want to be covered by insurance, because when you dip your toe into the insurance or into the industry of things, it can cause complications for the practicing person as well.

[20:17] Greer: So it's a lot to deal with. Yeah. Okay. So just definitely something to explore and figure out for yourself up front. What questions would you suggest women ask themselves when they are trying to find the right doula for their situation or a good match for who they are? 

Kimberly: For a postpartum doula?

Greer: Sure.

[20:37] Kimberly: It would probably be to the best of your ability to think about what your needs would be after having the baby. Have you meal prepped anything? What's your laundry situation like just on a day to day basis? What does upkeeping life look like for you? And imagining when there is a very dependent small thing that needs your attention all the time, what things will you not be able to take care of anymore? Yeah, like probably what are you responsible for? What are things that ride on you that you won't be able to carry anymore? And then if a postpartum doula would be willing to do those things, because sometimes it can vary if people have kids already as well, because when someone has a baby, then they're paying attention to the new life that they're trying to keep sustained. And some things get swept to the side. So maybe it's more nanny as well as helping make food and clean and things like that.

[21:45] Greer: Sure. Is there some kind of normal duration of time that someone postpartum might use a doula, or does that totally depend on the person?

[21:55] Kimberly: It does depend on the person, but typically it depends on how you ask, who you ask. But usually it's like zero to three months is about the postpartum doula stage, because when they get bigger than that, it does turn a little bit more into a nanny situation.

[22:12] Greer: Yeah , yeah. So it really is that fourth trimester range.

[22:14] Kimberly: Definitely.

[22:16] Greer: And then any thoughts on questions to ask yourself if you're looking for a doula to be present at the birth?

[22:22] Kimberly: Yeah, that side I'm a little bit more unfamiliar with. I would imagine it's more of a personality sort of thing. How well do you mesh together? Because you have to be so vulnerable. You're literally life and death are meeting at the crux. The word is not there, but the crux. Yeah, the crux. Thank you. Of you. And so finding a way to see if you connect with that person and how safe you feel around them. And then their schedules, their flexibilities I mean, some things will just be, do you have anyone, like, this is when I'm going to be, my due date. Do you have anyone else around or are you available at this time? Some things are just logistical as well. 

[23:15] Greer: Sure. That makes a lot of sense.

[23:16] Kimberly: Yeah.

[23:17] Greer: What's been rewarding or satisfying for you in your experience as a doula?

[23:24] Kimberly: I would say it's more being the hands that are there to support in the best way that I know how. And that is growing the new family. It's, and it's also, sometimes it can be so simple in a certain way to say, like, it's cooking, it's cleaning, it's washing dishes. But those are the things that sustain life. Those are the things that keep the machine going. And so it's a very important task to be supporting that. But also it's more supporting the mom because there is the baby and everyone's, oh, the baby, but it's the mom that is sustaining the new life, more or less. And then if she's breastfeeding those calories, I forget the number, but are, like, huge. How much energy is being burned to make the milk. So you have to be eating a lot. And so it's really more of, like, I would say it's like an honoring of the women in a way that sometimes I think is missing in society and that it feels very holy to be there in that very precious stage of life when the new is coming into the world and experiencing all the things as well as the mom. Maybe it's her first and she's growing into, like, what that means as well. So. Yeah, it's very significant.

[24:54] Greer: It's really beautiful. Oh, thank you for sharing that reflection.

[24:57] Kimberly: Yeah.

[24:58] Greer: What has been challenging about taking on the role of a doula?

[25:05] Kimberly: I would say more just sustainability, because it is, it's a luxury to have a postpartum doula also, sometimes I think it's, if families are around, it's not necessarily a necessity. But some people don't have family, so for someone to afford a postpartum doula is, yeah, not usually available to everybody, which is partly why I haven't continued to pursue it because I'm single, so I have to support myself and not, and so I haven't been able to keep, keep that up with the lack of funds for that.

[25:44] Greer: Sure. Yeah. When there's not really a standardized way of paying for that and it's already intermittent work by definition, you don't necessarily know when that delivery is going to happen or how long someone will need support, and then that is, any particular season of support will end. Yeah.

[26:03] Kimberly: Yeah

Greer: Sure. What surprised you?

[26:07] Kimberly: Not much, to be honest, because it's all a surprise. Like, every single person's different, every single baby's different, every situation's different. So I just kind of have gone into it with, like, it's all. It's all new. The basic necessities of, like, food and love and touch are the foundation of all things. So maybe that's actually one thing that surprised me, was just the general learning of, like, oh, we're all big babies, actually. We're all needing hugs and to be seen and to be fed. And I read this book called The Happiest Baby on the Block, and it's about how to have a happy baby. And I had all these light bulbs going off of, like, oh, swaddling is a weighted blanket. Like, essentially, yeah. Oh, a white noise machine is the shushing of a mom. Like. Like, that's why you shush is to, like, because it sounds like the blood flowing in the womb. It's loud in there. 

Greer: Wow.

[27:11] Kimberly: Yeah. A couple of other things I can't think of off the top of my head, but I was like, oh, yeah. Like, the basic how to have a happy baby is actually how to just be a happy adult to a certain degree.

[27:21] Greer: Neat. Going into people's homes is inherently a vulnerable thing, both for the person whose home it is and for you. I'm curious how you approached boundaries or if you ever were challenged by boundaries, maybe someone's expectations not matching up with your expectations or what you were comfortable with.

[27:47] Kimberly: That definitely is a thing to look for from both sides. Again, is this a good fit? I found that I don't really, I don't want to care necessarily for animals when I've been postpartum support. So then that's something. But I can kind of quickly assess that immediately. And then in general, there does have to be a pretty good amount of communication, but for the most part, the agreed amount of, like, hours and weeks. And so that's pretty, pretty standard. But as far as each person needing to figure out how it works best for them, like, maybe you want to pick up groceries for them. How do you exchange the funds? Or do you pay for that yourself and then get it back? Some people are strict. Like, no, you give me the money upfront. Like, then I'll get you them. I'll get you the groceries. So it's. It is something like a bit trial and error, but I think it's also more or less knowing yourself, kind of. And more like what you're comfortable with in that way. 

[28:55] Greer: In the interview process, was that typically in the home so that you could sort of be comfortable with what you were walking into?

[29:00] Kimberly: Yeah.

[29:01] Greer: And even just feel confident in basic things, like where X or Y or Z basic supplies are.

[29:07] Kimberly: Yes, yes, definitely. Yeah, walk me through your kitchen and show me where the pots and pans are. And, yeah, like, where's your room? Where are you going to be? And, yeah, how can I navigate it as best as possible. 

[29:25] Greer: Neat. Would you have any specific story you could share with us anonymously of a time when you were really able to witness the impact of your work?

[29:33] Kimberly: Yeah, there was this one family I helped with, and they had already had a child, and it was just after the pandemic, so that was a time where they wanted me. It was kind of a special situation because I actually moved in with them. They were friends of mine, and it just so worked out that I could. We had talked about it beforehand, but then the pandemic happened and we were like, cool, this is going to be a thing. So I moved in with them before she was due. She had the baby, so she was pregnant, and so it was fun to be on both sides of the support, on one side, cheering her on. Be like, you can do it. Like it just that that period of waiting, especially at the end, it feels so long. So we found different ways to keep her distracted and, like, occupied. But then when she actually had the baby, I was able to be there and, like, almost, like, immediately, like, step into the role of now I'm support on the other side because I was with her, her first and then was there throughout it all to be, be the extra pair of hands that they needed. But it actually didn't need much because he worked from home and he would hold the baby most of the time. And so I was like, okay, you guys got this. Onto the next. That was special.

[30:52] Greer: What a neat scenario. Could you reflect on how becoming a doula has affected your own relationship with your own body and your own sense of identity as a woman?

[31:04] Kimberly: Yeah, that definitely has led me down the path of learning about my own hormones. Um, so now, since I'm not really practicing, I do just geek out on women's health in general. That's never stopped. And I read this book called In the FLO by Alisa Vitti, and it's talked about how women's hormonal cycles reflect the seasons, which reflect the moon. But, um, the four seasons are within a hormonal cycle. And so now I try to live my life in a way that honors my own femininity and honors my own sacredness, because it is a sacred time when a woman has a baby. But then there's also just a sacredness to every single change throughout the hormonal cycle. And how do I honor each one of those changes? And even though some seasons are hard, like, winter is cold, so that's frustrating. But there's also beauty and being like, oh, this is a time where I rest. This is the time where I drink more tea, and then spring comes and you're like, oh, like, now it's time to get outside and have more energy. So not being so upset at each one of the phases and instead appreciating them more for what they are, and then how can I utilize them to the best of my advantage?

[32:30] Greer: I love that. That resonates a lot with me. Thank you for sharing that. I'll make sure that there's a link for that book as well in the show notes so people can look into that if that piqued their interest.

[32:41] Kimberly: I love that book. 

[32:45] Greer: You mentioned a little bit that you're not able to currently work as a doula. There were some issues around that, particularly the sort of instability of it. Was there anything else that contributed to needing to step back from that or just dynamics that are still being worked out as doulas become more integrated into the health care of women?

[33:05] Kimberly: No. I mean, I really love supporting and caring for women in all different kinds of phases of their life. I guess the other aspect, though, is that I have never had kids. So I would say that to a certain degree, even though I've been a support to moms, to women my whole life, there is still a distance and the fact that I've never had children. So I guess maybe imposter syndrome to a certain degree. But also, I feel like that's honoring my journey and the fact that I haven't done that so I can support someone to the best of their ability. But I also can't relate completely because I haven't been there. And so I think that probably is something that has helped me to steer a little bit more in the direction of more learning about the hormonal cycle away from labor and delivery and postpartum, because it's just something I've touched but haven't experienced myself.

[34:11] Greer: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Last question that I've been asking everyone this season. I'm wondering if you have any insight you could share with us and to how we as women can listen well to our bodies and our hearts as we move through making different family formation decisions in our lives.

[34:31] Kimberly: I would say love yourself no matter what phase of life you're in. Because just as the moon changes every day, she, her power and, like, her significance and her impact on the world never changes. Or it does change and she's still the moon. Like, she's, she's full and she's not. And she's, she's growing, she's changing. She's still the moon. And I think that that is something. As women, we change so much every day, and it can be really confusing to our minds, especially in the patriarchal society where men's hormonal cycles are 24 hours, and then they just go, like the sun, they just go and go and go. And we have a 24 hours cycle as well. We have a 28 day cycle as well. That plays into that. So embracing the differences in how we are day to day and then see the beauty in that, too, and take advantage of how we change. Because I think that men or people who have the different hormones than us can appreciate that, too, because it can get boring to do things 24 hours a day all the time, even just like with food, we're supposed to cycle through what we eat. We're not supposed to eat chicken every day, 365 days a year. Like, that wouldn't be good for our health. We're supposed to vary it with chicken and beef and fish and that our taste buds are what we crave changes just the same in our hormone, our hormonal cycles. So I just love that there are things that are consistent. We need food, we need water, we need love. But how we get those things and then also, like, when we get those things, it, or like, when we need them more changes. And yeah, it's hard. It's hard to get used to. But I think if women want to have babies and want to have children, starting to learn about your hormones when you're already pregnant and when you're already there is a lot. And so I think that as a culture and society, if we could teach young girls and then however age you are about your cycle and about your, the power you hold within and how you can utilize that through different phases of life is incredible.

[36:58] Greer: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thanks for testifying to that. Yeah, I really appreciated this conversation. I learned a lot.

[37:04] Kimberly: Me too. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.

[37:13] Greer: If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear from you. You can email me at femammalpodcast@gmail.com. That's femammalpodcast@gmail.com. You can also follow this podcast on facebook. Just search for Femammal Podcast and you will find a community of people who are interested in living well in our bodies. And of course, I'd love for you to rate this podcast and leave a review wherever you download your podcasts. Until next time, be well.